The Future They Made Us Forget, chapter 8

Chapter Eight: part3_various

being god was hard work.

[Near the start, and ethics board meeting where Marvin is still very upset about having killed millions of people; PoV Marvin isn’t there, is watching it later:

Kayla: “I propose an end to the rule that Marvins and Kaylas have to be equal participants.”

[This was unprecedented; that rule had been in force since the beginning of the duplications. We had made a temporary exception to it for the Nochli-hunting Kaylas, but had returned immediately after]

Reggie: “On what grounds do you propose this?”

Kayla: “[Marvin is being very unproductive because of his current mental condition, which is holding us back from the work the world needs. Allow Kaylas to take responsibility for the work]”

Marvin: “how can you talk as if everything is normal?!”

Kayla: “Things ARE normal! Having millions of people die because it’s convenient for someone else’s plan is the normal condition of humanity, and has been for thousands of years! And what we need to do right now is fix that, which you’re not doing!” [you didn’t even wear a mask for most of covid?] ]]

Marvin, jumping out of his seat, very angry, “_beeeeeeeeeeeeep_”

Reginald cleared his throat loudly. “We have important decisions to make. The chair recognizes that emotions are running high, but we must ask that you refrain from personal attacks. We recognize that Marvins’ and Kaylas’ conduct are pertinent to the question at hand, but please consider your words carefully before speaking.”

[Marvin sat down, suitably admonished]

Reggie: “Also, I move that Marvin’s comments, to the effect of _beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep_, be stricken from the record.”

[“I second,” said Marvin sheepishly. He had clearly regretted his words immediately] [After some more discussion, despite Kayla’s arguments (that this wasn’t to advance Kayla, it was good for the world; that Kayla would not get out of the ethics board’s control; that she had proved as much when the Nochli hunters were deleted) the board’s conclusion: “we appreciate the intent but we do not release you from the obligation to accommodate complicated human emotions”] [kayla: “i look at all of these people doing good things and evil things to each other, and think, how pointless it was to judge them … none of their decisions mattered. us, discovering time travel, had infinitely more effect on them than any of their good or bad deeds” [except stuff like murder, i guess?]] [maybe: moments after the protagonists see the nochli ocean structure, nochli strikes ontoh from below the earth, to wipe them out because their existence is an existential risk] [or maybe: the protagonists start duplicating ontoh to advise them in the war, and worry about the existential risk that creates] [or maybe: nochli gloats to ontoh, or even without that, ontoh gets really upset about having lost? i’m not sure if either of these are in character anymore (given the new nochli backstory and "engineered to be perpetually slightly distressed "thing), but it would still be interesting to see ontoh’s reaction. perhaps we can get a recording of it even if they get wiped out?] [not 100% sure whether i want to use this: shortly after they see the nochli ocean structure, a nochli approaches pov marvin, having sabotaged all of the nearby paradox traps using tiny insects and blacked out any windows to avoid being observed; Marvin pulls the personal alarm but nothing happens; “you’re not the only one who can use paradox traps,” said Nochli gently; Nochli butters up Marvin (“I’m impressed with what you’ve achieved”) and claims to be willing to coexist in peace, as long as they minimize existential risk by making sure not too many people are freed of the huvith (and if too many people are freed, then Nochli will be forced to wipe them out). Nochli comes off as being like the forthright, trustworthy Nochli from before they became alchiia (because that’s the appearance that would be appealing to Marvin’s). Marvin is getting convinced, because Nochli is using time travel to be convincing. But in the middle of the conversation, Nochli gets shot to pieces and 3 Kaylas [or robots?] march in to rescue Marvin; “but he wasn’t trying to hurt me, he was just talking!” (Kayla to another Kayla:) “this Marvin is compromised, we have to take them to the less secure base with the other compromised Marvin’s”; while they take him there, they try to talk him out of it (“what do you think Nochli would do if they wanted to get you to sympathize with them? Isn’t that exactly what you just experienced?”)] [“but you vivisect people!”

Nochli, emoting regret: “previous Nochli decided it was okay because they don’t suffer. I have not done it; all Nochli have decided not to do it since [the bombing].”

“You just _stopped_??

“We hope to include you in our trust!

[The horror and philosophy of “what if the majority of our futures are being captured and abused by Nochli?”; Ontoh would say that you should live your life as if the future that matters is the only future (if you can’t really do anything to affect what happens in the takir futures, but you can advance your interests in the un-captured future, you should do that). Ontoh might not be available right now (either killed by Nochli or restricted access because PoV-Marvin is compromised) but someone can represent their perspective] [[Description of the Nochli ocean structure, as seen from a long way away] I never actually saw it in person. Even the other Marvin’s didn’t go close to it, the entire war was conducted with robots because the combat made a huge radius around it inhospitable to life]

I instantly thought of her as “General Kayla”. Her proud bearing, the way she was seated [like in a captains chair"]

[But the real dramatic thing about her, was,] She was old.

The oldest Kayla I’d ever seen. She had spent lifetimes preparing for this. [What does it take for someone my Kayla to live all the way to old age, while remaining who they are? You can’t get that old by continually forcing yourself – it will kill you first. For a typical person to get that old, they basically give up on their youthful idealism, softening themselves to avoid burning out. But Kayla had taken a third path: she had made sophisticated policies for how to maintain both her brain hardware and her ability to act with the same level of dedication when it counts.]

[also she still had arms, why? only later I realized: Kayla’s arms provided her the one thing that motivated her to continue being morally vigilant: _distress_.] [our weapons were tested outside the solar system, with the benefit of the speed-of-light delay to prevent detection?] [In game theory it is called the game of chicken; you benefit from making commitments; Kayla had given herself a perfect advantage by being able to commit _by actually doing it_, so that Nochli would always have to be the one to back down] [Nochli says that if Kayla takes away their ability to pull the plug, Nochli will inevitably be destroyed by other time travelers taking over, so it _makes no difference_ and they might as well allow Kayla to destroy the world; in fact this is a lie and Nochli would somewhat prefer to survive for the small chance of long-term survival rather than zero] [discuss the prospect of indefinitely living in the last hour of loop before Kayla and Nochli’s negotation breaks down and Kayla destroys everything] [Kayla basically wins the negotiation because she will in-fact destroy everything and Nochli prefers to survive even if they are disempowered - the only question (for the plot design) is what Kayla agrees to]